Carb choice problems

[8177]

As you may be able to tell by the name my. Jeep has already had its share of mods. I was reading through the paperwork the PO passed on to me and found that the cj7 had a 77 258 installed. That would explain the presence of a carter YF and not the BBD. So off I go to get tune up parts. I get ready to pull the plugs and the are not the 65's needed for a 77 block. I dig into the paperwork and see that an 81 block was installed to keep the Smog police at bay here in sunny California. But he kept the 77 dist, intake and the yf carb. Now I know the go to solution is a 2100 or 2150 but I don't know if the smog guys will allow it. I have a line on a 2 BBL intake just in case its legal here. Until I get the time to get the smog done so I can register it next week I wanted to do the research on some options. Suppose the motorcraft option is not approved in the PRK, New to CJ's and just don't know yet, And I need to stick with one of the Carters. Which is better. The YF or BBD.
Jim

 

[greg92jeepxj]

Hey Jim , wish best of luck on your inspection in the PRK. Heard their tough. I once rebuilt a BBD for a friend on a slant six 2bbl and we got it to work satisfactory. I remember this carb with a 318 Plymouth and found it to work satisfactory and all in all if feel no reason to bad mouth this carb.
The YF , as long as it is the non-electronic feedback ecm controlled with mixture control solenoid , you may be ok as well . This should not be applicable on your 258, but '1981 ? What is correct by PRK STANDARD ? I'd like another members feedback on this . I only had one experience with it . My brother years ago had an '84 XJ 2.5 litre with the YF electronic carb and after rebuild it was still plagued . Believing it was the mixture solenoid , we opted for a replacement from the boneyard. We swapped float to junkyard carb and best I can say then was decent to ok . It ran . Not great , but it ran. I won't bad mouth the YF unless another member(s) condemns it alltogher.
this being said , I liked the BBD but would like for you to keep your options open as I am not sure what was OEM for the 258 and Kalifornia is specific to that , I'm to understand. I've heard their big on ORIGINAL EQUIPTMENT and would not want you to fail on a technicality . Hoping for more member input , particularly of the PRK chapter. Hope this helps and again wishing luck to you as I would not enjoy knowing the misses cannot drive her jeep because of failed inspection . Greg

 

[8177]

I am baffled that the current config has passed in the earlier years. Heck it was just smogged in May for the tags but it has to be done to transfer ownership. Looking at the engine bay you would think you were seeing a 77 engine bay. I went to change the plugs I bought for the ,I thought it was a 77 (65's), for the correct for the block 985's. Talked to talk to a guy with an 83 and had a chance to see what was under his hood. Looks like a normal modern set-up with miles of hoses and emissions. I think I'm in for a little adventure in the next couple of weeks. he said I just need to pass a visual under the hood and then the sniff check. Might get to go with any manifold and Carb set up that will fit under the stock 81 air cleaner. Anyone have a link to a stock looking 81 engine bay.

 

[greg92jeepxj]

It s a little confusing is right . Should you go with '77 emissions or '81 ? I know your engine is a '81 , but will the inspectors know or care ? Wondering do they go as far as looking at block numbers . I think the best thing to do since the intake and carb ( should you keep it ) , is '77 is to do exactly that , follow '77 emissions diagrams for vacuum hose routing as I think that is what the inspectors are expecting to see . If they are aware the engine , from your paperwork , has a recorded history of engine swap ( California is strict , but I don't know to what degree ) then they most likely will expect to see '81 emissions . If it is true you will need '81 emissions as you posted , I do have , if it helps , '80 reprints from Willys-overland with vacuum routing specs if they are close . Try however , autozone's website and look for vacuum schematics or diagrams I think they word it. Their website has many specs such as vacuum and wiring diagrams . Hope this helps and hoping you not have trouble with inspection . Best of luck , Greg

 

[8177]

I think I'll take it in for a pre-test. If it passes visual I will take it back to the same place. Pretty sure it won't pass the sniffer till I rebuild the Carb.

 

[8177]

Well i took it in for the smog test. If there was a level above gross polluter My CJ would be the picture next to the definition.

So here is what I got:
at idle HC: Max 250, Gross Polluter 500, Me 747 CO max 2.5 GP 5.0 me 11.37
at 2500 rpm HC: Max 200, GP 450 me 172 C0 max 3.0 GP 5.5 Me 6.75

I feel like I won the lottery with numbers that high. So I need you all to weigh in on a few things. I have a BAR number on the dash (bureau of automotive repair) saying its a 77 engine. If I do anything to the YF carb like replace it. The replacement has to be a Carb available for the 258 in 77. I have not been able to get all my research in but that would be the YF or a Webber Right???

Now I can rip off the BAR tag and put the motor to an 81 config which is what the block is. But still I would have to install everything the 81 had for smog.

So I'm thinking for simplicity I should keep the 77 config and can either 1.) rebuild the YF or 2.) get a Webber if it was indeed available on the engine in 77. 3.)If the engine ( what I under stand is the factor not the model the engine was in) had a 2BBl carb of different design in 77 I can go with that? Any 2 BBL configs offered for the 258 in 77 that will run better tha a YF. Cant go with FI at this time. Not in the budget. Thanks for your help in this. i sure do need it. And a beer!!!
Jim

I'm sure a cat is involed here too and it has a cam in it. If I cant get the timing to factory then it has to go. I have teh cam ard for it. Need to look that over to see what they say the timing is. it was at 20 degrees. the failed cert says B20 I'm guessing 20 BTC. what is it supposed to be? And what is that big white thing under the dist that the Vacuum Advance is hooked up to.

Ok I have found out that some engines on CJ's had a BBD carb. any other carbs offered in other vehicles for that year.

 

[superj]

I think you are dead in the water on that. See what came on a cj5 and a cj7 and the AMC cars that had the 258. I think international used them on their pick ups also but I think to meet Cali laws you have to use what came in that make and model.

They made it such a pain, my grandpa never drove his 65 mustang again.

 

[8177]

Since I have the BAR tag the smog dude said it needed to be what was available on the engine. I have already gone beyond what the PRK smog laws. They say the same or like engine of the same year or newer. The jeep originally had a 4 cyl in it. Now its labeled for a 77 258. How all this happened amazes me so leave on the sticker and make it a 77 engine or pull it off and make it a 81 engine. Smog component wise I think staying 77 is best but I want to get rid of the YF if I can and so far it looks like a 2v intake and a BBD may be a slightly better option. I don't have any real world knowledge on this so any help is appreciated. There is a BBD and intake on flea-bay now and if the consensus is that its a better option I will bid on it. Wish all this would have happened after I had it for a while and not just a week. I don't know enough yet to make the call.

 

[PoliceMonkey161]

I'm kind of at a loss as I'm not familiar with CA emissions regs......... So in reading your posting, if the tag you have states that it's a 77 engine, you would need components that were available for emission from the manufacturer during the specific year? And vice versa for the 81 senero?


The 77 would have only been avaiable with a 1 bbl carb. The 81 would have been available with a 2 bbl (and 2v intake). As for a "Weber", there is no question that it would work for you even adp'ed to a single bbl intake (1v) and still produce better emissions. But will your State allow an aftermarket upgrade? Yes the Weber's were certainly available in 77 and 81, but they were never a AMC option (not to be confused with the 2 bbl Carter type carbs that Weber was contracted to produce for a short time).

 

[8177]

That is correct. I can bring the engine to stock 77 258. not stock 77 CJ7. Or I remove the BAR tag and build to stock 258 in a CJ7 and actually the jeep originally had a 4 banger. Not sure at this point if I would have to go back to that engine. If The Cherokee or Comanche had 258 with a 2 BBL I can build to that.

 

[PoliceMonkey161]

Now those are some crazy regs........ So, since your block is an 81, can you build to the 81 specs? If it were me, I would go that route. By 81, the in-line 6 would have had more performance options and some emissions control equipment.

Do these regs. affect your choice of distributor? If not, your have greater options for performance and better emissions.

 

[8177]

I don't think there is a reg on the dist. I'll have to check with the smog guys to see if I can have the 258 if I take it to the 81 config. Since it had a 4 cyl in 81 I may have to make it a stock config. I think I can upgrade the 258 intake since same or newer are the key words in the reg. Calif is leading the country in stupidity that's for sure. I won a 2(V) intake, carb and all the emission control from an 81 for 75 bucks + shipping on fleabay. I may have to smog with the YF and drive with a BBD or 2150 on the alternate manifold.
Jim